Another banger! One of the most satisfying parts of this sport is learning all you can and then throwing it away in favor of what works for you in the field. Thanks for relaying that sentiment.
I'll contend fishing dries for spring creek fish (Henry's Fork, Metolius here in Oregon) does necessitate a longer leader, but if you can't be accurate with it, as you say, don't bother.
Similarly, one reason I like a longer leader is it's easier to transition to a subsurface presentation with a nymph if god forbid I get frustrated with fish not eating on top and want to actually catch something to remind myself it's possible...
I'll beg to differ on the Henry's Fork. It's been a long time but I guided on it in the late 80s.
And of course we have our share of spring creeks here in the East that have the same sort of reputation. Doesn't matter on them either. The only waters I have ever found the need for longer leaders are the British chalkstreams because of their stupid upstream dry fly only rule. Now you either have to be an expert at the hook cast or use a slightly longer leader so you don't bang the business end of the fly line right on top of a fish. They have reasonably bigger bugs there and the fish hold relatively deep a lot of the time. So the might end up with a 4-6 ft radius picture window. You end up having to cast way ahead of the fish to give it enough time to rise.
Around here I inevitably end up fishing either across or down to most fish. Upstream dry fly is a mug's game, IMO.
And you found HF fish weren't leader shy? Interesting! I'm going to have to do some more firsthand observation and experimentation...
The other thing I was wondering: I've read a few authors say they always cut off the last 12-18" of tapered leaders, because they've found those are more prone to breakage, I guess due to the machine extrusion process...I've never noticed this. Have you?
Actually the last 2 ft or so are level, aren't they. But I wouldn't notice because I inevitably cut them off and step down 1 tippet size. My common go to leader is a 7.5 ft leader, typically 3 or 4X. If I'm fishing a dry-dropper type rig, or bigger attractor dries, I'll cut the 3X leader back until I'm at about 2X and then tie of an arm's length of 4X and then the fly and then whatever else there is - another dry or the droppers. If I'm fishing smaller dries I'll cut the 4X leader back to 3X and then add my tippet material. of course shifting back and forth may need extra bits of tippet material in between.
One thing I've learned about "leader shy" fish is that they aren't so much leader shy as fly line plop shy. Which is why I always cast across or down to a surface feeding fish. The gentle drop of a fly line 9-11 feet away doesn't bother them very much. One landing in their picture window scares the heck out of them.
This would track with something I’ve heard Tom Rosenbauer say many times on his podcast that it’s his opinion that trout can see tippet, even 7X, an they just filter it out as unimportant in deciding food items (like the bend and point of our hooks). If trout were scared of everything floating above them they’d starve in autumn when the rivers carry leaves down them.
Actually I partially take the opposite stance to Rosenbauer. I don't think they can see that stuff from any meaningful distance. All the biologists who have studied trout eyes also say the same. Their eyesight just isn't that good. But I suppose at some stage you have to acknowledge that they ignore the negative stuff. But again I'm not sure how much.
I always have a story, but when I was a kid there was a trout stream near where we lived for a while that had a section that flowed through a park and was protected as a "Trout Propagation Area". Place had huge trout and the park had these paths that would cross the stream. I'd stand on the little foot bridges and chuck all sorts of stuff into the river and watch the trout rise up and mouth it. Bits of stick, rolled up bits of paper, foiul from old cigarette packets - that sort of thing. In fact I think that's why some of those weird things like the Chernobyl patterns work - the curiosity gets the better of the trout.
In one of the best books on trout fishing in Alberta (out of print of course) the author talks about using rabbit turds and a willow leaf as bait to catch bull trout. I’ve also seen trout described as sort of like babies, experimenting by putting things in their mouth and (usually) spitting out non-food items.
I think when Tom talks about it it’s in reference to up close sight, people asking if smaller diameters of tippet are better because they’re less visible and the more likely thing is that the lighter tippet is less affected by micro-drag.
Yeah, exactly, it's just a substitution with a blood / surgeons in there, which doesn't make sense to me.
100% on the plop, that's where I see a lot of beginners putting down fish, not getting an unfurl and instead having everything land in a puddle. Shorter, stouter leaders would certainly help with that!
It's not just the leaders landing in a pile. People seem to not realize that you ought to stop your cast a little bit above the water and let everything drop gently. Instead they slap stuff onto the surface (which of course helps if your fishing a hopper or beetle, at which stage their casts become gentle as can be).
But see, if the short stout leader helps catch fish because it helps stop the plop, then those fish aren't leader shy to the short stout leaders.:)
The other thing shorter leaders are useful for is wind. I'm like that cartoon character who used to walk around with the cloud over his head. I bring my own wind wherever I go.
Another banger! One of the most satisfying parts of this sport is learning all you can and then throwing it away in favor of what works for you in the field. Thanks for relaying that sentiment.
I'll contend fishing dries for spring creek fish (Henry's Fork, Metolius here in Oregon) does necessitate a longer leader, but if you can't be accurate with it, as you say, don't bother.
Similarly, one reason I like a longer leader is it's easier to transition to a subsurface presentation with a nymph if god forbid I get frustrated with fish not eating on top and want to actually catch something to remind myself it's possible...
And thanks for the like.
I'll beg to differ on the Henry's Fork. It's been a long time but I guided on it in the late 80s.
And of course we have our share of spring creeks here in the East that have the same sort of reputation. Doesn't matter on them either. The only waters I have ever found the need for longer leaders are the British chalkstreams because of their stupid upstream dry fly only rule. Now you either have to be an expert at the hook cast or use a slightly longer leader so you don't bang the business end of the fly line right on top of a fish. They have reasonably bigger bugs there and the fish hold relatively deep a lot of the time. So the might end up with a 4-6 ft radius picture window. You end up having to cast way ahead of the fish to give it enough time to rise.
Around here I inevitably end up fishing either across or down to most fish. Upstream dry fly is a mug's game, IMO.
And you found HF fish weren't leader shy? Interesting! I'm going to have to do some more firsthand observation and experimentation...
The other thing I was wondering: I've read a few authors say they always cut off the last 12-18" of tapered leaders, because they've found those are more prone to breakage, I guess due to the machine extrusion process...I've never noticed this. Have you?
Actually the last 2 ft or so are level, aren't they. But I wouldn't notice because I inevitably cut them off and step down 1 tippet size. My common go to leader is a 7.5 ft leader, typically 3 or 4X. If I'm fishing a dry-dropper type rig, or bigger attractor dries, I'll cut the 3X leader back until I'm at about 2X and then tie of an arm's length of 4X and then the fly and then whatever else there is - another dry or the droppers. If I'm fishing smaller dries I'll cut the 4X leader back to 3X and then add my tippet material. of course shifting back and forth may need extra bits of tippet material in between.
One thing I've learned about "leader shy" fish is that they aren't so much leader shy as fly line plop shy. Which is why I always cast across or down to a surface feeding fish. The gentle drop of a fly line 9-11 feet away doesn't bother them very much. One landing in their picture window scares the heck out of them.
This would track with something I’ve heard Tom Rosenbauer say many times on his podcast that it’s his opinion that trout can see tippet, even 7X, an they just filter it out as unimportant in deciding food items (like the bend and point of our hooks). If trout were scared of everything floating above them they’d starve in autumn when the rivers carry leaves down them.
Actually I partially take the opposite stance to Rosenbauer. I don't think they can see that stuff from any meaningful distance. All the biologists who have studied trout eyes also say the same. Their eyesight just isn't that good. But I suppose at some stage you have to acknowledge that they ignore the negative stuff. But again I'm not sure how much.
I always have a story, but when I was a kid there was a trout stream near where we lived for a while that had a section that flowed through a park and was protected as a "Trout Propagation Area". Place had huge trout and the park had these paths that would cross the stream. I'd stand on the little foot bridges and chuck all sorts of stuff into the river and watch the trout rise up and mouth it. Bits of stick, rolled up bits of paper, foiul from old cigarette packets - that sort of thing. In fact I think that's why some of those weird things like the Chernobyl patterns work - the curiosity gets the better of the trout.
In one of the best books on trout fishing in Alberta (out of print of course) the author talks about using rabbit turds and a willow leaf as bait to catch bull trout. I’ve also seen trout described as sort of like babies, experimenting by putting things in their mouth and (usually) spitting out non-food items.
I think when Tom talks about it it’s in reference to up close sight, people asking if smaller diameters of tippet are better because they’re less visible and the more likely thing is that the lighter tippet is less affected by micro-drag.
Yeah, exactly, it's just a substitution with a blood / surgeons in there, which doesn't make sense to me.
100% on the plop, that's where I see a lot of beginners putting down fish, not getting an unfurl and instead having everything land in a puddle. Shorter, stouter leaders would certainly help with that!
It's not just the leaders landing in a pile. People seem to not realize that you ought to stop your cast a little bit above the water and let everything drop gently. Instead they slap stuff onto the surface (which of course helps if your fishing a hopper or beetle, at which stage their casts become gentle as can be).
But see, if the short stout leader helps catch fish because it helps stop the plop, then those fish aren't leader shy to the short stout leaders.:)
The other thing shorter leaders are useful for is wind. I'm like that cartoon character who used to walk around with the cloud over his head. I bring my own wind wherever I go.
Great article.
Thank you.